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Worried about population going forward - No sheep and all wolves?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Sethisto, May 19, 2017 at 9:20 PM.

  1. Sethisto

    Sethisto Goblin Scout

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    I played DFO back in 2009, and for the first few sub cycles it was amazing. People were leaving fast tho. It's inevitable for any MMO, but DFO dropped super quick. I joined Rise of Agon with 6 people... and we are down to 2, with one only playing occasionally and not totally thrilled with it.

    Rise of Agon has brought a lot of good changes to the table:

    • Lower grind
    • Frontload
    • Easy harvesting

    It's still anti-newbie though, and seems to pander way too hard to wolves that want easy kills:

    • Massive teleport times (Bindstone recall takes forever why?)
    • Channeling to enter/exit portals
    • Channeling to remove armor
    • Confusing criminal system that is easy to dance around
    • Towers hitting like pussies
    • Massive world and not a lot of ways to get around it (portal network helps a ton)
    • The exploitable city kills
    • Massive difference in power between newbie stuff and geared

    It's a recipe for people being griefed into quitting. Why pander so hard to reds and punish blues so hard? Reds have it so easy in this game when they should be the pinnacle of pvpers.

    I'm going to compare to Ultima. I played through the Felucca->trammel period. In UO:

    • World travel was player run, with easy to enter/leave spawns for both reds and blues, making obscure places accessable.
    • Armor and weapons were cheap and easy for newbs to acquire.
    • Escape and return was a 2 second recall cast time.
    • Cities were essentially safe, with instant kill "towers".
    • Reds were sufficiently punished and pretty much outcasts after just 4 murders, with a long wait before becoming blue again.

    Yet even with all of this, it was still hardcore to a point where it was literally dying.

    A lot of people bash trammel (the splitting of the world to a murder-free version for PVE players), and I still don't think it was the "correct" decision, but there is no doubt that it saved the game. People were leaving UO in droves. When trammel hit it BOOMED. Suddenly stuff was actually getting use out of people that never would have now that the reward greatly outweighed the risk.

    Before you freak, no, I do not at all want a trammel in Darkfall. I think there is a lesson there though: RoA needs some PVE love.
    • More rewarding world spawns easier to get to.
    • Rewarded exploration.
    • More robust and accessible treasure map system (I think I've seen only one person in the guild get a map?)
    • More fishing stuff with the existing boat system
    • More housing plots with easier access to them

    At the moment, this is a great PVP Game, but not at all a newbie friendly one. In a gaming world where you can get a similar Darkfall experience in a plethora of survival games on Steam without the grind, it really needs to give people a reason to enjoy the RPG side. Right now for a lot of people, its just an ARK with a bigger server population and a massive grind and travel time to do anything.

    The "sheep" just don't have enough to do in ROA. Top spawns are far away with massive travel times, meaning sheep don't bother since a red popping up behind a rock is pretty much a death sentence. Giving newbs and sheep more to do and an easier time to do it (MUCH faster teleport home time) would make them stick around, and gives wolves something to kill that are actually a challenge to catch.

    (Edit: Made it more bulletpointy for internet eyes)
     
    #1 Sethisto, May 19, 2017 at 9:20 PM
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 9:51 PM
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  2. mybsurchin

    mybsurchin Goblin Scout

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    There's already an 8 page thread on this exact topic
     
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  3. WizardKing

    WizardKing Goblin Scout
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    Massive wall of text attacking the game. It has no purpose.
     
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  4. TyteDaddyTite

    TyteDaddyTite Air Elemental
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    I really hate when people proliferate the idea that you are a "wolf" or a "sheep" if you play this game. It is a dumb dumb idea. They have been making the crafting system more in depth, there are trade routes, there is pve, there are new spawns. While I agree there should be more sandbox content, you really cannot expect someone to play the game and never learn anything about pvp, even if they suck.
     
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  5. Thubub

    Thubub Goblin Warrior
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    Ask not what BPG can do for your noobdom, ask what you can do for yourself.



    What is up with all the millennial snowflake threads. I am all for the adding more sand ideas, but I think we are in a pretty good place with being more noobie friendly. BPG has been very responsive, but there is a point you reach where Darkfall isn't Darkfall anymore. This game isn't for everyone. Let's not water it down so much that it turns into a game of staring at banks.
     
  6. Ruiner097

    Ruiner097 Goblin Scout

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    New player here and feel like im one of the very few players that has never played Darkfall of any kind. Im red and i die alot to veterans but i still make enough off killing people farming to sustain.

    I will say the world too big, travel time takes up half my time or more. Current portals are inconvient, game desperately needs a revamped portal system or fast travel of some sort.

    Op nailed it, there are other games with similar playstyles that have less time commitment. Why would anyone want to spend two hours just to get to a fight or farm a spawn.

    My 2c
     
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  7. 12204

    12204 Goblin Warrior

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    no.
     
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  8. Sethisto

    Sethisto Goblin Scout

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    It won't make me quit, but it does make people quit. Darkfall is a game that requires a big playerbase to fill its massive sandbox world. It's natural to worry that certain things would drive people away.
     
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  9. Slayven

    Slayven Black Knight
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    I just want to say one thing..no one in this game came out of their Momas pussy knowing how to pvp in darkfall..it all self taught though the players..honestly the sheep noobs what ever u call it, practice ask more questions..
    Let me say it like this as well if u guys think for one moment that vets don't get slaughtered at spawns and such ur wrong..we die to..we get the same treatment as u do..learn from mistakes and ask the right questions..pull the vet aside that just stomped u and ask for a few tips...I'm sure will be surprised with what comes next most likely an answer. Darkfall is not about fair..vets get zeroed..jumped at spawns. It's a mentality thing. Learn practice try..I'm a vet sheep and remember one thing they can never take my skills away or what I have learned. Dedicate ur self and I promise u will be happy u did when u get that sweet victory
     
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  10. TryHard

    TryHard Stormgraive
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    Sorry but exploring is extremely profitable if you pick up all the spawnable items that currently exist. You can make gold just traveling the map its great.

    The spawns are currently EVERYWHERE, try not going to a spawn right next to clan cities and hamlets and almost every spawn can be profitable right now, its nice.

    Everyone is complaining and no one is trying the game it seems, I am unclanned and have moved to 5 different NPC cities so far(Ork Human and Dwarf cities) I found spawns that were close to all of them and netted profit solo and also spent a few hours just riding around collecting pappyrus and chaos chest not to mention countless reagents.

    (For the noobs reading, pick up every item you see and check your system chat, you will find things like Piles of Volcanic ash give you 10-30 ash which is basically 100g for free)

    You need to break from old DFO habbits and try new ways of playing, going to the old hobgoblin veteran spawn isnt gonna work <3
     
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  11. jefftxp

    jefftxp Skeleton Archer

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    Darkfall will always die a slow death as long as PKing new players is easy to do. Simple as that.

    I see reds just outside of sanguine camping miners all the time. Its ridiculous how close a red pker can get to the starting cities.
     
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  12. EarthMother

    EarthMother Goblin Warrior
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    Enjoy the population while it lasts boiz.
     
  13. Navlaan

    Navlaan Stormgraive

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    Sadly alot of pkers don't want good fights, just fights they know they can win. Instead of killing newb blues, obviously new players, and the like, why not just raid cities, go to high tier spawns, dungeons, and sub continents... I'm sure it's more fun than killing a noob at s troll spawn lol.

    The pker get a almost nothing for killing a newb, besides saying they got PvP and a kill and after a while the new player quits playing because they died to someone doing double their damage in better gear.

    Idk, maybe I'm salty, but I just want new players to stick around long enough for them to get complete characters and enjoy PvP. I know the time to be viable is very fast, but still, a lot of new players will quit if they feel they lost due not to player skill, but a gap between character and gear.

    I'm not blaming anyone specifically or even saying newbs shouldn't be killed, just saying they will quit without giving the game a fair chance if they die too much early. I actually am glad I got ganked on the original early on, it made me it care about losing stuff as much.

    Excuse all spelling mistakes etc I am on mobile and my hands are big (not fat, just large!)
     
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  14. Maejohl

    Maejohl Windlord
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    I don't agree with all the op points but yes, this version of the game remains still gives no real downside for being red. And by removing race wars it's just sped this up.

    BPG need to go all the way and turn this into an arena game. It's where it's all heading now anyway.
     
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  15. Scrapnotcrap

    Scrapnotcrap Frostjarl
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    I will only agree with the fact that being red is too easy.

    Unlike uo, Df is supposed to be an heavy pvp focus game.
     
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  16. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Infernal
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    i do not see it as an attack, i see it as a statement of fact.

    the fact that you believe it an attack already insinuates that you're not prepared to approach this logically or methodically yet .. and you're a tester...amazing that everyone loves every change they have made isnt it?

    it's not an attack, it's not directed at you, don't be defensive. it's purpose is definitive and understood by those of us who share this persons opinion. players such as yourself who feel the need to babble and badmouth those who provide feedback, are the actual reason new players are leaving. nobody wants the abuse.

    this guy is trying to help and you're instantly on the defensive on behalf of a company that has literally and admittedly avoided doing anything close to a tutorial but instead went for the easy fixes.

    a tutorial and better pve would go a long way, i'm not sure how you don't see that.
    --- Post updated ---
    sure you can, not everyone wants to pvp. i'm not fond of the sheep/wolves reference either, but it's about the only way that some vets can grasp the context of whats going on.. they've gone too far down the path of gank gank gank pvp pvp pvp to see that there is anything else in DF.

    this game, really should still be in beta until they fix the existing flaws and further test their plans.

    they made crafting more in depth yet made it more difficult for solo/casual/small clan players to progress, while some large clans literally already have crafters with max'd out ability. they're working with each patch to fix things, the problem is that they're trying to drag RoA out of the Niche category into the mainstream, and that's not going to happen without adding in some serious nerfing to pvp and the community mentality.
     
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  17. Thubub

    Thubub Goblin Warrior
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    Who let snowflake out of his cage again?

    Once again you create generalizations out of thin air and present them as facts.

    Your claim that solos, etc. have a harder time to progress....than what? A larger focused clan? Of course they do. That would be the case regardless.

    Harder progress than at some magical time in the past where solos, etc. had an easier time progressing? Or some magical time in the future after a 10 year beta? Stupid argument is stupid.

    As for the intentions of BPG trying to drag this game somewhere, you haven't been reading or listening to what the deva have actually said. On multiple occasions they have indicated that they know thus is a niche game and want to keep all the great things that make Darkfall, Darkfall.
     
  18. Mycke

    Mycke Frostjarl

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    Im not going to get in the middle of this but I will say there has to be a decision between a large population and a pvp population, im not sure you can have both and if you want the large population the main thing there needs to be is a little space for that population to breath.

    Now that can be handled a million ways and different degrees, which means it should be discussed openly and sincerely or there just wont be a choice in the not too distant future.

    Edit: I see maybe one way to have both and that might be to embrace the full PvP arena, but it either needs to go more arena or more noob/casual friendly to get a large pop, this in between state I dont think will do it.
     
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  19. Carrot Soup

    Carrot Soup Infernal
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    sure you can, not everyone wants to pvp. i'm not fond of the sheep/wolves reference either, but it's about the only way that some vets can grasp the context of whats going on.. they've gone too far down the path of gank gank gank pvp pvp pvp to see that there is anything else in DF.

    this game, really should still be in beta until they fix the existing flaws and further test their plans.

    they made crafting more in depth yet made it more difficult for solo/casual/small clan players to progress, while some large clans literally already have crafters with max'd out ability. they're working with each patch to fix things, the problem is that they're trying to drag RoA out of the Niche category into the mainstream, and that's not going to happen without adding in some serious nerfing to pvp and the community mentality.
    exactly

    no need to bicker about it. it stays niche and will eventually die out again, or they pull it closer to mainstream and make it more carebear.
     
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  20. Sique

    Sique Oak Lord
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