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Wild Weapon Theorycraft

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Billy Lee, Dec 7, 2017 at 9:18 AM.

  1. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Crypt Guard

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    I think most of you will understand my thought process on these changes so I'll just write them out without in depth explanation.

    • normalize speed of all two handed weapons
    • normalize speed of all one handed weapons
    • reduce bludgeoning protection on light armor
    • weapons are balanced on reach, damage, damage type, and power attack
    • 3 weapons per type and rank, each with a unique power attack
    To clarify the last point, each rank of greataxes would have 3 variants (same as now), but instead of varying speed, they would each have their own power attack. For example (and only for example):

    Variant One: Physical protection debuff
    Variant Two: Large damage boost with successful back hit (one attack only)
    Variant Three: Moderate size self heal

    What I like about this:

    • end of the "speed always wins" era
    • all weapons may finally be useful
    • weapon variants allow for more build customization
    • would be fun to experiment with different power attacks
    • easier to balance
    • all weapon variants have a chance to be used (whereas currently slow variants are not)
    • easy to apply something similar to bows since each rank has 3 variants
    • makes r70 weapons different
    • opens up potential in upcoming perk system
    • enhances options for weaponsmithing in upcoming artisan system
    • makes landing power attacks important
     
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  2. GSO_taylorswift

    GSO_taylorswift Undead Dwarf
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    Probably the dumbest idea I’ve ever wasted my time reading.
     
  3. Korag

    Korag Oak Lord
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    I like most of this, cept I am not real sure on normalizing damage, it just seems a club and or axe should hit harder than a sword but the power attack idea is cool but again I feel like everyone would go for the power attack that was a life leech as it would be like the UW skill that everyone used. but not bad ideas at all.
     
  4. Lord Zanuul

    Lord Zanuul Stormgraive
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    When you are designing these kinds of changes you have to think of one thing and that is choice there has to be a real choice there's too many aspects in this game that don't actually give you a choice for instance we see that everyone is grabbing the same types of food because there really isn't much of a choice you're going to use a very particular pot you're going to use very specific in enchantments this is because it's a no-brainer stuff needs to be designed to give real choice for instance great Axe could have the ability built into it of decapitation not saying that BPG will do that I'm just giving an example it could be the one weapon that actually gives D caps
     
  5. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Crypt Guard

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    Damage would not be normalized, I think clubs and axes should do more damage too, just the speed would be normalized. The life leech power attack was just an example.

    I agree. I think all weapons could be appealing if this was done correctly, being able to choose from many power attack styles would be great, and weapons having equal speed would allow for diversity in other areas. Also, what we currently have is zero diversity, zero choice, nearly everyone uses swords and greatswords and they are correct to do so.
     
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  6. Battle Smurf

    Battle Smurf Cairn Giant
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    Add Claw weapons

    Buff Sithras
     
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  7. Wes Furtive

    Wes Furtive Obsidian Golem
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    Regardless of what is changed, SOMETHING needs to change so Deepblades aren't the only thing people are using.
     
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  8. Crunchbert

    Crunchbert Deadeye

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    I'd consider coming back to the game but theres still 0 diversity. Every bid I watched was still a guy with a GS. And was a generic Destro or a Generic everything mage. Theres a lot of people who would prob come back to the game if some of that was changed.
     
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  9. Korag

    Korag Oak Lord
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    they have specialization on the road map, not sure how far off they are, so they plan to address this it is just a matter of when
     
  10. Billy Lee

    Billy Lee Crypt Guard

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    The question is: Can weapons be balanced with different speeds? All evidence suggests that they can't, we see this with sword and greatsword dominance in pvp, knives in pve, and fast staffs. Fast bows are slightly different because of encumbrance. By normalizing speed by weapon type I believe it is much easier to balance. Power attack is a really cool ability and a great opportunity for much needed build customization, what is really cool about it is it is a neat way to nerf and buff weapons without altering the base damage values of the weapons. Personally I think reach is a great tool for balance as well, I could see short reach, high damage greatclubs and long reach polearms with high damage but less useful power attacks.

    I will say this: Mundane builds (destroyers, guardsman, etc) have *very* limited room for build customization, it's practically zero. Being able to choose between balanced weapons with a variety of power attack options would breathe a lot of life into these builds, and I suspect there will be many more mundane builds once the perk patch arrives. @Crunchbert You, myself, and many others want diversity. We will get some of that in the perk patch but weapons are such an obvious thing to build around yet there is no build potential.

    Of course the power attack route is just one possibility (the coolest one imo) but I just don't see variation in weapon speeds ever working, it always comes down to math, more dps is going to win because there is no quick disengage abilities like in other games. Jousting is very fun but against top tier players you are fairly likely to get punished for relying on it. This could change a bit if knockback was more reliable, or if polearms had some kind of knockback ability on their power attack (or one power attack variant, see? customization).

    If varying weapon speeds are to stay in the game I think more disengage tools would be appropriate. Imagine if melee had some sort of stun attack that disabled your opponent's melee for a short time but also dealt no damage, improved knockback attacks, a damage reduction ability with a cooldown, double step moving further back, double jump speed increased, some kind of useful parry ability, etc.

    We need more input from you guys, let's figure this problem out and make weapon diversity an actual thing!
     
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